Underdog format

Hi

Well this one will be hard to phrase....let me try....

We all know that in the current way that "Underdog" reruns are shown, there will be 2 Underdog episodes + 2 Tennessee Tuxedo episodes as well, and the "cop" in the closing points to additional credits, instead of the sign "Post No Bills."

When it ran originally (on NBC I believe), didn't the announcer say that ALL 4 CHAPTERS of an Underdog story would be shown in one sitting? And wasn't that the way it was originally displayed, 4 in 1 show?

I think the Lenburg book said "Go Go Gophers" & maybe "Klondike Kat" were shown during the shows.

So which is it?

I would assume that on originally on Saturday mornings, we'd have seen the 4 in 1, and for syndication purposes, they threw in Tennessee Tuxedo, so as to stretch out the format to 5-a-week.

I just read (I think on another board) how Total TV, Jay Ward & even Hanna-Barbera cartoons got thrown into the same shows....this sure confuses the heck out of any trivia buff like me!

OH....& how were the 4 "one shot" Underdog episodes shown on the network? All 4 in one sitting, I would assume.

And what was the status of Gophers & Klondike?

An info would be appreciated.

cd

Those interstitials date back to the 1969-1973 NBC run, when indeed all four chapters of an "Underdog" storyline would play in one half-hour. As far as I know, that particular run was the only time Underdog was shown in that format; nonetheless, those teasers were used again in the US syndicated shows, where they made no sense at all.
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I think the Lenburg book said "Go Go Gophers" & maybe "Klondike Kat" were shown during the shows.

So which is it?

I would assume that on originally on Saturday mornings, we'd have seen the 4 in 1, and for syndication purposes, they threw in Tennessee Tuxedo, so as to stretch out the format to 5-a-week.
The history of the different runs of the shows and the specifics of which segments appeared on which shows in which years in which venues can be very confusing. The best I can piece it together is that the original supporting segments on The Underdog Show were "Go Go Gophers" and "The Hunter." "Go Go Gophers" was introduced for The Underdog Show. I have a dupe of a vintage NBC show (from 16mm) which has "Aesop And Son" and "The Hunter," and uses "Go Go Gophers" music on a short intro for the "next week preview" segment. (There is no "short cartoon" in this show, like a "Commander McBragg," by the way.) So it appears that at least at some point early in the NBC run, "Go Go Gophers" alternated with repeats of (Jay Ward's) "Aesop And Son."

Tennessee Tuxedo And His Tales originally featured "The Hunter" and "The King & Odie" (during its first season on CBS in 1963-1964). Both of these segments originated as part of King Leonardo And His Short Subjects, but 26 new segments of each were produced for and first aired on Tennessee Tuxedo. When The Underdog Show premiered the following year, "The Hunter" moved over to Underdog and repeats of "Tooter Turtle" replaced "The Hunter" on Tuxedo. (No new "Tooter Turtle" cartoons were produced.)

Then around 1966, Total TV launched a syndicated series called Cartoon Cut-Ups, which featured "Underdog," "Tennessee Tuxedo" and "Commander McBragg." (This series is the basis for many of the US syndicated Underdog Show episodes.)

The Underdog Show returned to network television in 1969, airing on NBC. By then, Go Go Gophers had their own show on CBS (does anyone know what other cartoons were featured?), and "The Hunter" and "Tooter Turtle" were airing on The Dudley Do-Right Show, Sunday mornings on ABC. The Beagles had premiered in 1967, featuring "The King & Odie" and "Klondike Kat." (I am not certain about this, but "Klondike Kat" may have first appeared on The Beagles.) At one point later on, The Beagles was merged with Tennessee Tuxedo. So this new run of Underdog did not feature any of these other cartoons.

I should also point out that a lot of the above does not apply to the current syndicated versions of any of these shows, which have been mixed and matched in different configurations since then.

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I just read (I think on another board) how Total TV, Jay Ward & even Hanna-Barbera cartoons got thrown into the same shows....this sure confuses the heck out of any trivia buff like me!
Yes, there were a few H-B shows distributed through The Program Exchange, apparently through a similar sort of "sponsor deal" as the Jay Ward and TTV shows. I know that in the 1980s, Space Kiddettes was airing in Chicago with "Go Go Gophers" and "The Hunter" included. I have a Young Samson in 16mm which has a "Tennessee Tuxedo" segment in it, and the closing credits make reference to "Fractured Fairy Tales." I'm told that in both cases, these anomalies date back to the original network runs of these two series!
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OH....& how were the 4 "one shot" Underdog episodes shown on the network? All 4 in one sitting, I would assume.
Actually, only the first three are "one-shots." "Tricky Trap By Tap Tap" chronologically follows the four-part story "From Hopeless To Helpless," and served as a "fifth chapter" or "epilogue" to that storyline. I'm told that this threw off the sequencing of the Underdog shows in their original run. This also may be why they made such a big deal about "all of today's four-part story complete on one show" for the later NBC run (1969-1973). As the US syndicated package now stands (and has stood since at least the mid-1970s), "Tricky Trap By Tap Tap" (chronologically, it's #32) runs out of sequence in the second syndicated Underdog Show, so the rest of the "Underdog" cartoons (which are all four-parters) stay in the same format for the rest of the episode cycle.

TRES COOL!! I hereby proclaim you King of Total TV Trivia, FishBulb!

I am impressed.....now....this spawns more questions....where do I begin.....?

(1) So the "Post No Bills Cop" debuted in 1969?

(2) If the original Underdog from 1964 only showed 2 eps a week, that meant as a kid, I would have to wait a whole week for the conclusion which seemed like an eternity then....I know, there's "Bullwinkle" too.....

(3) Aesop?!?!? But did not ABC have the rights to that during its "Bullwinkle" run on Sundays at the exact same time? That would be a cool 16mm to see....

(4) So they produced NEW King-&-Odies & Hunters for 1963-64? (Johnny Carson) I didn't know that! (I grabbed that from Zavkram)

(5) The Lenburg 1990 edition seems to leave out some pieces to this puzzle....there is not enough info on Klondike Kat to go by, nor does it list Go Go Gophers as a CBS show, which indeed it was.

(6) I remember watching Dudley on ABC back then....it definitely had Tooter, Hunter & McBragg...in my market, the ABC station pre-empted it & the indie grabbed it, which I thought was cool, man....

(7) Now theeeee question.....could "Hopeless & Helpless" have run as a 4-parter and be a good story, or was "Tap Tap" necessary to complete it? IOW, did H/H conclude with Tap Tap in jail, and the writers decide to have a lil fun on their own & add the epilog?

Inquiring minds....Fish, feel free to PM me on this if you feel this is getting boring to the others ;)

In Reply To
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TRES COOL!! I hereby proclaim you King of Total TV Trivia, FishBulb!

Well, I don't know if I'd go that far, but thanks...I guess...

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I am impressed.....now....this spawns more questions....where do I begin.....?

(1) So the "Post No Bills Cop" debuted in 1969?

No...that was part of the original Underdog Show in 1964. The hybrid version (using parts of the original Underdog and Tuxedo closings) dates back to Cartoon Cut-Ups in 1966.

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(2) If the original Underdog from 1964 only showed 2 eps a week, that meant as a kid, I would have to wait a whole week for the conclusion which seemed like an eternity then....I know, there's "Bullwinkle" too.....

That's right.

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(3) Aesop?!?!? But did not ABC have the rights to that during its "Bullwinkle" run on Sundays at the exact same time? That would be a cool 16mm to see....

Yes, and "Peabody" and "Fractured Fairy Tales" were running on The Bullwinkle Show and Hoppity Hooper simultaneously (though both on ABC), while both also appeared as part of Rocky And His Friends in syndication. (Rocky And His Friends was syndicated as a 30-minute package at that time.)

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(4) So they produced NEW King-&-Odies & Hunters for 1963-64? (Johnny Carson) I didn't know that! (I grabbed that from Zavkram)

That's right...they were done for Tennessee Tuxedo, and "Tooter Turtle" was brought back a year later, in 1964...which is why they didn't make any new "Tooters."

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(5) The Lenburg 1990 edition seems to leave out some pieces to this puzzle....there is not enough info on Klondike Kat to go by, nor does it list Go Go Gophers as a CBS show, which indeed it was.

The version I have (it says it's a "corrected" edition but it's full of mistakes and ommissions) doesn't list King Leonardo as a separate show either.

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(6) I remember watching Dudley on ABC back then....it definitely had Tooter, Hunter & McBragg...in my market, the ABC station pre-empted it & the indie grabbed it, which I thought was cool, man....

Same thing happened with the Road Runner in Chicago...it aired on WFLD-Channel 32 instead of CBS-Channel 2.

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(7) Now theeeee question.....could "Hopeless & Helpless" have run as a 4-parter and be a good story, or was "Tap Tap" necessary to complete it? IOW, did H/H conclude with Tap Tap in jail, and the writers decide to have a lil fun on their own & add the epilog?

It's been a while since I've watched it, but I believe FTTH ends with Tap Tap in jail, and then "Tricky Trap" has Underdog thinking about Tap Tap and visiting him in prison to se if he still looks like Underdog. Bad idea!

"Little House's" Nellie Oleson's aunt Norma MacMillan was Sweet Polly and other females yet the Cartoon Cut Ups showing that I saw always cut her name out thus when I bought reference sources in the late 1970s at 18-19 such as Vincent Terrace's "TV Encyclopedia', and the Lenburg and other books, I was surprised to see MacMillan then within the last TEN YEARS I saw her name was there (one name NEVER listed: Frank Milano, often mis-cited as "Mr.Wizard", Tooter the Turtle's reliable "King Leonardo" go-to wizard--not that he appeared on Underdog,though..Sandy Becker was the actual Mr.Wizard voice.).

One fact no one here mentioned is that for a time from 1974-94, the syndicated package also included the pilot films for "Cauliflower Cabby" and "Gene Hat Tree." These episodes, "Introducing The Champion," and "The Trap" never went beyond the pilot stage, and were permanently removed after 1994. Plus, we mustn't forget the three episodes of "The Singalong Family."

The 'Go Go Gophers' show featured two Gopher cartoons and a two-part Space Kiddettes segment.Two seasons earlier,on NBC,'Space Kiddettes' featured the Kiddettes,along with the Hunter and the Go Go Gophers.

Cartoon said:In Reply To Quote TRES COOL!! I hereby proclaim you King of Total TV Trivia, FishBulb!

Well, I don't know if I'd go that far, but thanks...I guess...

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I am impressed.....now....this spawns more questions....where do I begin.....?

(1) So the "Post No Bills Cop" debuted in 1969?

No...that was part of the original Underdog Show in 1964. The hybrid version (using parts of the original Underdog and Tuxedo closings) dates back to Cartoon Cut-Ups in 1966.

Quote
(2) If the original Underdog from 1964 only showed 2 eps a week, that meant as a kid, I would have to wait a whole week for the conclusion which seemed like an eternity then....I know, there's "Bullwinkle" too.....

That's right.

Quote
(3) Aesop?!?!? But did not ABC have the rights to that during its "Bullwinkle" run on Sundays at the exact same time? That would be a cool 16mm to see....

Yes, and "Peabody" and "Fractured Fairy Tales" were running on The Bullwinkle Show and Hoppity Hooper simultaneously (though both on ABC), while both also appeared as part of Rocky And His Friends in syndication. (Rocky And His Friends was syndicated as a 30-minute package at that time.)

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(4) So they produced NEW King-&-Odies & Hunters for 1963-64? (Johnny Carson) I didn't know that! (I grabbed that from Zavkram)

That's right...they were done for Tennessee Tuxedo, and "Tooter Turtle" was brought back a year later, in 1964...which is why they didn't make any new "Tooters."

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(5) The Lenburg 1990 edition seems to leave out some pieces to this puzzle....there is not enough info on Klondike Kat to go by, nor does it list Go Go Gophers as a CBS show, which indeed it was.

The version I have (it says it's a "corrected" edition but it's full of mistakes and ommissions) doesn't list King Leonardo as a separate show either.

Quote
(6) I remember watching Dudley on ABC back then....it definitely had Tooter, Hunter & McBragg...in my market, the ABC station pre-empted it & the indie grabbed it, which I thought was cool, man....

Same thing happened with the Road Runner in Chicago...it aired on WFLD-Channel 32 instead of CBS-Channel 2.

Quote
(7) Now theeeee question.....could "Hopeless & Helpless" have run as a 4-parter and be a good story, or was "Tap Tap" necessary to complete it? IOW, did H/H conclude with Tap Tap in jail, and the writers decide to have a lil fun on their own & add the epilog?

It's been a while since I've watched it, but I believe FTTH ends with Tap Tap in jail, and then "Tricky Trap" has Underdog thinking about Tap Tap and visiting him in prison to se if he still looks like Underdog. Bad idea!

The syndication company DFS Program Exchange owned the "Underdog" series and other Gamma Productions/Leonardo TV cartoons.

DFS stood for "Dancer Fitzgerald Sample" which was an advertising agency involved in General Mills cereal advertising...which had sponsored Leonardo TV's "Underdog", "Tennessee Tuxedo", and "King Leonardo and His Short Subjects" as well as Jay Ward's "Rocky and Bullwinkle", "Dudley Do-Right", and "Uncle Waldo"/"Hoppity Hooper" in their 1960s run. Bullwinkle was a commercial character spokesmoose for Cheerios cereal. DFS also owns the syndication rights to Hanna-Barbera's "Space Kiddettes" and "Young Samson" cartoons which explains their appearances during "Underdog" and "Tennessee Tuxedo" shows in some tv markets.

DFS was renamed "The Program Exchange" and remains a syndicator of various tv sitcoms such as "The Addams Family", "I Dream of Jeannie", "Gimme A Break", "Bewitched", "The Cosby Show", "Just Shoot Me", "Coach",
"3rd Rock From The Sun" and "NewsRadio" as well as the 1980s "Dennis the Menace" cartoons and the 1990s "Where in the World is Carmen San Diego" animated series.

The Program Exchange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia